Some silliness before a stressful weekend

[nnozomi]

A bit of Chinese wordplay that I thought was funny: when two people in white shirts stand on either side of one in a black shirt, someone describes them as 利奥利 (lì-ào-lì). Guess why (or see the answer here). Answer: Oreo cookies in Chinese are 奥利奥, which is just transliteration; but it makes perfect sense that if the black-white-black Oreo coloring is ào-lì-ào, then white-black-white would be lì-ào-lì… .
Also a word/character that I enjoy for its just-exactly-like-that-ness: 汆, which means to parboil, and which is made up of 入, put into, and 水, water. (Also relieved that water is water in Chinese, unlike Japanese, in which water 水 and hot water (お)湯 are separate words; Y and I had a debate over the Japanese expression in which you “boil hot water,” which doesn’t make much sense to me; a case in which the object is the result of the verb?).

Trying to transcribe something in Chinese (an interview about my favorite singer) which is unsubtitled, and finding it extremely difficult, although the speaker doesn’t go too fast and pronounces things quite clearly, apart from the sh/zh = r thing which all Chinese men seem to do. Even so there are a lot of gaps and places where I can hear the word but can’t figure out what character it might be. I did notice that sometimes a line which absolutely stumps me on one day seems quite clear when I come back to it the next; not sure why, but it’s interesting.

I’ve been enjoying everyone’s 100-formative-books lists, and finally gave in and made my own here. Featuring a lot of the same photograph (does it count as a stock photo if it’s one I took?) in place of a book cover image, because I couldn’t bring myself to search for images of ALL the Japanese books, quite a few of the English ones, etc. Why don’t they just give you a “no image” option? Also, I feel like I’ve left a lot out; I don’t remember all the books that were childhood favorites! I mean, if the titles or authors come up I naturally remember the books themselves, but I can’t list them all off out of thin air, and my physical books have undergone many shifts due to changing houses, countries, etc. etc. Where is there a giant master list of “all the books someone of my generation would have been likely to read growing up, Anglophone edition”…

One of my original-thing characters is having a professional breakthrough of sorts and I can’t tell whether I’ve managed to be as smart as she is or completely dumb (whether it’s going to make any sense to the [hypothetical] readers or seem like it was obvious five chapters ago). I should probably be relieved that I’ve managed to come up with something for her to be inspired about; it took me literally over a year to solve another character’s similar problem for him, jeez. I’m just about halfway through the whole thing now and things are starting to happen, but I still have SO MANY question marks in my outline and I’m making such very slow progress, oh dear.

Music: an older recording of Chen Ming and Jiang Dunhao singing 让, because I continue to be obsessed, and also I like this song; also last week’s radio opera was Figaro, so here’s Jessye Norman singing Dove sono, just because it’s one of the most beautiful things in the universe.

Photos: lots more sakura and cats, also one of the prettiest weeds I’ve seen.

Be safe and well.

Comments

[clevermanka]

That tuxedo cat is a mob boss

[nnozomi]

Yes, perfect!

[goss]

white-black-white would be lì-ào-lì

Hee. That's fun - and makes sense! ^__^

[nnozomi]

That's fun - and makes sense! ^__^
I love this kind of weird linguistic logic.

[sakana17]

利奥利 

I adore this!

It’s so great that you’re doing the interview transcription.

I did notice that sometimes a line which absolutely stumps me on one day seems quite clear when I come back to it the next

That’s fantastic!

Love all the flower photos (and the pretty weed!)! Simply gorgeous. The black and white cat looks personally responsible for and unrepentant about the clutter, with a “this is my business, not yours” look. Great contrast to the other cat enjoying the flowers and greenery.

[nnozomi]

利奥利
I adore this!
Courtesy of the TNB guys ;)

The black and white cat looks personally responsible for and unrepentant about the clutter, with a “this is my business, not yours” look.
Oh yes, exactly! :D <3

[china_shop]

unlike Japanese, in which water 水 and hot water (お)湯 are separate words; Y and I had a debate over the Japanese expression in which you “boil hot water,” which doesn’t make much sense to me; a case in which the object is the result of the verb?

Ha, fascinating. What is it with our obsession with chronological linearity anyway? ;-)

(I clicked six of your books. ♥)

Lovely photos! I adore the framing of the lower middle one, particularly, and all the lines and angles as usual. <3 <3 <3

[nnozomi]

What is it with our obsession with chronological linearity anyway? ;-)
A good point! I was thinking that "object as result of verb" must be quite rare, but then come to think of it, there's "bake a cake" and many other similar versions...it's just that we don't think of boiling water that way offhand...

So glad you liked the books and photos <3

[china_shop]

Ooh, my brain just lit up! So, based on this, my intuition says there's a class of "making" verbs (bake, build, etc) and a class of "acting on" verbs (sift, hammer, etc). And English puts boiling in the second category, but Japanese puts it in the first? That's so cool!

(I wonder what Koreans say... the Naver dictionary just has 물을 끓이다 so I guess it's like English.)

[nnozomi]

So, based on this, my intuition says there's a class of "making" verbs (bake, build, etc) and a class of "acting on" verbs (sift, hammer, etc). And English puts boiling in the second category, but Japanese puts it in the first?
That's a very clear way to put it! Makes perfect sense.

[china_shop]

It's funny how wrong it sounds when things are in a different category.

(Oh, does squeeze fit in both? Can you squeeze oranges and orange juice? I feel like there might be a regional English where that's the case.)

[nnozomi]

Oh, does squeeze fit in both? Can you squeeze oranges and orange juice?
I have a feeling it does, but it's been so long since fresh orange juice was a thing at my table lol (not for lack of access, just preferences). Oh wait, I'm pretty sure you press cider and press apples for cider!

[trobadora]

利奥利, OMG, that is delightful. :D :D :D

unlike Japanese, in which water 水 and hot water (お)湯 are separate words

*tries to wrap head around that* Languages, man. WTF.

sometimes a line which absolutely stumps me on one day seems quite clear when I come back to it the next

Yeah, that happens to me, too!

[nnozomi]

in which water 水 and hot water (お)湯 are separate words
*tries to wrap head around that* Languages, man. WTF.
I know! The other one that gets me is the Chinese 热 versus 烫, hot as a state of being vs hot to the touch...

Yeah, that happens to me, too!
Good to know. I wonder if it's a weird instance of the subconscious operating, or what.

[superborb]

LOL my mom just scolded me for misusing 热 like that yesterday, though she did not explicate why it was wrong...

[nnozomi]

I don't think I've seen 烫 explained formally anywhere, come to think of it! I just saw enough people saying 小心，烫! onscreen to guess at it, lol

[trobadora]

I think it's the same thing, or a similar thing, that happens when I hear something and it takes my brain several moments to parse it because it's not applying the correct language. With English and German it most frequently happens with overheard snatches of conversation or music - it's just syllables that don't make sense, until something clicks internally, and then suddenly it's completely obvious what it says. Something just gets stuck internally in the language-parsing mechanism, and when it gets unstuck, it all falls into place.

[nnozomi]

Oh yes, that makes sense, that's an excellent way to think about it! (I've had a weird experience I bet you have too--when I'm trying to think in Chinese and I hear people speaking Japanese, I wonder "why are they speaking English?" and then I realize, no, wait, they're speaking Japanese, my brain just filed it as "language I understand better" and assumed that was "English"...)

[trobadora]

Ha! Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

[china_shop]

Korean has different words for raw and cooked rice. :-)

[trobadora]

These things are just made to be evil to language learners, LOL.

[china_shop]

Eh, that one is fine. The one I get really stuck on is that Korean has two words for "hard/difficult" -- one that means difficult to understand (like language learning or maths) and one that means onerous (like having a hard day or... language learning ;-p). And because in English I'd just say "hard", I have to stop and think every time: which do I actually mean?

[trobadora]

You just made me think about the German words for hard/difficult until my brain tied itself into knots, LOL.

("schwierig" is "complicated, difficult to understand or execute", "schwer" is "heavy, difficult to bear", but also there's also a big overlap between them in the "difficult to do" area, and then there's a bunch of other words, and ... /o\)

[china_shop]

That sounds a lot like the Korean distinctions, but they both translate to 어렵다 ("difficult to understand, tricky") in Google Translate. Might just be a GTranslate issue, of course; it works a bit better in a Korean translator.

[trobadora]

Google Translate can be very hit-or-miss with these things! It's generally better with a full sentence of context, but even then ...

[china_shop]

(Sorry, I'm really stuck on this now! /o\ The Korean dictionary translating into German gives as direct translations:

어렵다 = shwierig, shwer, herausfordernd
힘들다 = anstrengend, kräftezehrend, kraftraubend

There are other usages in the examples.)

[trobadora]

That's fascinating! Every language draws the line in a different place. From what I can tell, "schwer" could work as a translation for both, depending on context ... it can definitely mean all of those!

[cyphomandra]

38! Oh man I forgot National Velvet (and I am actually reading Bagnold’s A Diary Without Dates at the moment), also Jean Ure.

Miss Pym Disposes is my favourite Tey (I think) now, I just love the whole world of it all and all those great characters. Have you read Ankaret’s crossover fic in which Lois Sanger heads off to Leys after the events of The Cricket Term? :D

[nnozomi]

Bagnold’s A Diary Without Dates
ooh, interesting!
(ETA, sorry: which is your favorite Jean Ure?)

Miss Pym Disposes is my favourite Tey (I think) now, I just love the whole world of it all and all those great characters.
Yes, same! I'm in awe of how she manages to characterize a couple of dozen people and make us care about all of them (although I'm a wimp and I wish it had a happier ending). Not sure if I have read Ankaret's fic but I will go and look.

[cyphomandra]

Bagnold's Diary was intriguing - lots of atmosphere and vivid detail, very little structure. Oddly sideways compared with other medical memoirs I've read, focussed on daily rituals and differences and inconveniences rather than clinical detail. I believe it got her dismissed from the VAD (it does clearly point out the differences in treatment for the Tommies versus the officers).

Jean Ure - ooh hard to pick. I have a weakness for Hi There Supermouse and Nicola Mimosa, and I do like A Proper Little Nooryeff (but less the sequel), but I would probably go for Play Nimrod for Him as being the most formative. It's a book I argue with in my head :D

I'm intrigued as to how you would have got a happier ending out of Miss Pym - do you want righteous justice or just more faith in humanity? :D

[nnozomi]

lots of atmosphere and vivid detail, very little structure. Oddly sideways compared with other medical memoirs I've read, focussed on daily rituals and differences and inconveniences rather than clinical detail.
Interesting! I feel like I should expect that in a way, given the way National Velvet is about 500% more atmospheric than any other horse girl book I've ever come across. I'll look it up.

I have a weakness for Hi There Supermouse and Nicola Mimosa, and I do like A Proper Little Nooryeff (but less the sequel), but I would probably go for Play Nimrod for Him as being the most formative. It's a book I argue with in my head :D
I don't remember coming across Play Nimrod for Him at all, again I'll have to look for it (bless openlibrary and its ilk). I always prefer Nicola Mimosa to Hi There Supermouse, just because I get upset when the treatment of Nicola and Rose is so unbalanced (also because the second one has Denny and he's great). I'm fond of the Thursday books too, especially the last one, Tomorrow Is Another Day.

ETA: sorry I keep editing responses at you, damn! Re Miss Pym: I don't think I want righteous justice, just some assurance that Innes isn't going to be miserable for the rest of her life. It's probably a better book without any such thing, but I'm a wimp...

[scytale]

Tuxedo kitty!!

Also omg that is such a pretty weed!

[nnozomi]

Tuxedo indeed! and glad you liked the weed, I was impressed by its gorgeous color. <3

[tinny]

The li-ao-li is hilarious! I love wordplay like that.

Continued good luck on your "original thing". You're doing great, it's not a timed competition. <3

I've been dithering on the 100 books thing (and one person on my flist revealed that it actually started as a movie/tv thing on tumblr but of course dw focused on books instead immediately :D), but maybe I'll find the time this week.


The blue flowers are amazing, and yay cherry/plum blossoms! \o/

[nnozomi]

The li-ao-li is hilarious! I love wordplay like that.
Me too!

and thank you for the encouragement <3 much appreciated.

one person on my flist revealed that it actually started as a movie/tv thing on tumblr but of course dw focused on books instead immediately :D
see, I'm pretty sure I haven't actually seen a hundred movies or TV shows in my life, I couldn't do it except for books (not as a value judgment, just how my brain works). I've seen a few people on DW doing movies etc. too, though, why not?

[tinny]

I did think about it today, and books were definitely more formative for me, because they started earlier than tv or movies. So that list makes more sense to me personally, too.

But I've absolutely seen hundreds of movies and quite a lot of tv shows. :D I'm likely going to make a mixed list, and I will hopefully stop way before i get to 100.

[nnozomi]

I'm likely going to make a mixed list,
I'll look forward to it!

[tinny]

I made the list yesterday, yay!, but I'll have to write up some background info for it - I just like to waffle on about things and those commentary-less lists aren't really my thing.

But I had the same trouble you had: all the German YA and children's books I grew up with weren't there yet and I had to create them.

p.s.: I clicked through yours, I have read 4. (Although I have read quite a few Rivers of London books but not the one you chose for your list, so if that stands for the whole series, then it should be 5.) I am not surprised, your literary background is very very different from mine. <3

[nnozomi]

I just like to waffle on about things and those commentary-less lists aren't really my thing.
Sounds like fun both to write and to read! Maybe I'll add some commentary to mine sometime when at loose ends. and yeah, it's so annoying that so many books, especially the ones not in English, aren't findable on the site.

(and yeah, you can definitely take the Rivers of London book as representing the whole series! It's kind of an outlier, which I think is among the best of them, but I like the others too.)

[chestnut_pod]

A glorious five shared books… I think this must be generational differences!

[nnozomi]

I'm tempted to say "oh no, it's just because you grew up on the wrong coast" but I don't think I could back that up with evidence lol, not to mention the inflammatory phrasing. It's okay, we all learn new things to read from one another!

[chestnut_pod]

Could be both! I did admire all the lovely covers :)

[nnozomi]

My partner was just saying "wow, book design in English is so innovative compared to the ones in Japanese"--I'm not sure he's right, but certainly there are some nice ones.

[halfcactus]

I wish there was a glossary with your explanations / definitions / musings about words, they're always a delight to read!

I'm also amused that the only books I've read that are on your list are Nodame Cantabile (though I'm much more familiar with the jdrama) and The Mixed-Up Files

[nnozomi]

so glad you enjoy my rambling about words! Always fun to think about.

Nodame Cantabile (though I'm much more familiar with the jdrama) and The Mixed-Up Files
That's a funny pair to come up with :) I was kind of disappointed by the live-action version of Nodame because I didn't like the actor they picked for Chiaki, but I really love the manga. I wonder if you'd like my other manga favorite, Ookiku Furikabutte (although an interest in baseball is something of a prerequisite...).