This is such a fascinating, thought-provoking post! I’ve had it open for ages wanting to reply … better late than never, right?
the author has a (spoilery) post on her antagonists which makes it clear how few are of them are simple un-fleshed-out baddies, and how many of the others change over time from villain to comrade or from villain to terrible-person-who-is-also-complicated-and-relatable.
I don’t even know the series, but I read that whole post with delight! Excellent stuff. Yeah, you can really tell these are fully realised characters, not narrative functions. Which is as it should be!
Most of the straight-up “bad person because the narrative says so, the end” characters (Zheng Zhongyuan, the Rebel Chief, the fight-promoter guy) have very little screentime, so we’re not bored by them.
You know, I never actually noticed this? But it’s so true. Same for Da Ji’s murderous husband. If they’re one-dimensional, they’re only briefly there; if they get more screen time, they’re more fully fleshed out. (Which one comes first?)
I’m still struggling with the other two major ones; by trying to make my antagonists ambiguous and—not relatable exactly—imaginable as fellow human beings?, I feel like they keep slithering away from me qua antagonists, which makes it hard to hang on to the conflict.
Do you mean that as they’re more fleshed out, they should be able to find different solutions? Or just that the focus drifts away from the conflict qua conflict and towards to their individual struggles?
Mostly I think the best conflicts are between sides where the difference isn’t “one is evil” but they have incompatible values and goals. And the way they should almost be able to get past their differences but ultimately can’t – or one side can’t – is what makes for a lot of fantastic tension that just isn’t there if it’s good-vs-evil all the way. (I have no idea how that applies to your writing at all, but in general …)
I feel like “putting in the work” is the keyword here on all counts
Agreed! And for making readers love characters, I don’t think it’s a detriment if the author loves them a lot, only if the author believes that because the characters are so great, of course everyone will love them! *g*
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2023-04-14 10:26 pm (UTC)the author has a (spoilery) post on her antagonists which makes it clear how few are of them are simple un-fleshed-out baddies, and how many of the others change over time from villain to comrade or from villain to terrible-person-who-is-also-complicated-and-relatable.
I don’t even know the series, but I read that whole post with delight! Excellent stuff. Yeah, you can really tell these are fully realised characters, not narrative functions. Which is as it should be!
Most of the straight-up “bad person because the narrative says so, the end” characters (Zheng Zhongyuan, the Rebel Chief, the fight-promoter guy) have very little screentime, so we’re not bored by them.
You know, I never actually noticed this? But it’s so true. Same for Da Ji’s murderous husband. If they’re one-dimensional, they’re only briefly there; if they get more screen time, they’re more fully fleshed out. (Which one comes first?)
I’m still struggling with the other two major ones; by trying to make my antagonists ambiguous and—not relatable exactly—imaginable as fellow human beings?, I feel like they keep slithering away from me qua antagonists, which makes it hard to hang on to the conflict.
Do you mean that as they’re more fleshed out, they should be able to find different solutions? Or just that the focus drifts away from the conflict qua conflict and towards to their individual struggles?
Mostly I think the best conflicts are between sides where the difference isn’t “one is evil” but they have incompatible values and goals. And the way they should almost be able to get past their differences but ultimately can’t – or one side can’t – is what makes for a lot of fantastic tension that just isn’t there if it’s good-vs-evil all the way. (I have no idea how that applies to your writing at all, but in general …)
I feel like “putting in the work” is the keyword here on all counts
Agreed! And for making readers love characters, I don’t think it’s a detriment if the author loves them a lot, only if the author believes that because the characters are so great, of course everyone will love them! *g*