Comfort for me, none for the characters (cdrama stuff)

[nnozomi]

I have been having...you can’t even say “health problems” with something this minor, tiny trivial discomforts which upset me only because when they hang around for a few days, I keep thinking “but what if this is the first sign of thus-and-such terrible illness,” etc., you know, the way one does. Distracting myself with cdrama rambling.

An idea coming up from all the very good Guardian meta there seems to be a lot of lately. Shen Wei in episode 8 etc.: I mean, he is horrified to find that modern pre-Kunlun Kunlun is such a disaster all around, but also there’s this amazing unfolding joy at seeing all the aspects of Kunlun that, for various good reasons, he never could ten thousand years ago; even the terrible ones (possibly excepting the fridge) are in some ways wonderful revelations, both in the sense of just getting to know him better and in the sense that there’s so much more depth and complexity to Kunlun than his younger self could ever have imagined, including the bad parts, and for the first time he’s able to imagine the things that have made/are making Kunlun who he is, not just his own youthful adulation. The head-on-shoulder taxi scene is a real moment of his discovering what it’s like to be older than Kunlun, in both years and maturity, and recognizing again that yes, he still loves him that much. And it’s terrifying for him, both because he doesn’t know that (this) Kunlun does or will love him back—and he doesn’t know if he’ll get him back after the timeloop—and also because Professor Shen and the modern Black-Cloaked Envoy being completely, self-overwhelmingly in love is different from the sweet, half-grown Hei Pao Shi of ten thousand years ago being the same.

Also: I swore to myself that I wasn’t going to do this, and then I did it. Here is a little bit of fic which fits in at the end of episode 23 of The Rebel (T-rated, canon compliant, hurt no comfort, essentially nothing happens). Almost certainly influenced by the excellent fics already posted by others, especially achray’s for the same episode.
The glass of water clinks against the table as Lan Xinjie sets it down, her hands still unsteady. Zilu’s breath snuffles a little under the blanket, a small peaceful sound. Lin Nansheng feels as if his own hands are shaking, but when he looks down at them, fingers laid flat over his thighs, they are still. As the adrenaline wears off his shoulder is starting to hurt a lot. Getting his holster off, and on again tomorrow morning, is going to be an ordeal.
He thinks, out of nowhere, that in a similar position Chen Moqun would have had Lan Xinjie take it off for him. For a moment he is groggy with wanting that: standing still, without thought, without tension, while gentle hands ease the tight leather straps off his aching shoulders, letting him open his chest and breathe—
Then the hands in the momentary dream are no longer Lan Xinjie’s small, cold, soft ones, but larger and stronger, blunt fingertips conferring kindness while leaving open the possibility of pain—
Lin Nansheng’s stomach heaves and he swallows hard, shuddering. Lan Xinjie turns to look at him with the animal weariness of resignation. “What’s wrong?”
He tries to say “Nothing” but the word catches in his throat, acid. He pushes back from the table so that he can put his head between his knees, the holstered gun bruising his side, jaw clenched to stop himself from sobbing; his exhausted mind has made another sudden leap and he can’t stop thinking did it hurt, how much did it hurt him, was he frightened, alone in that room.
To say any of it out loud would be to wreak on Lan Xinjie the cruelty she has always spared him, and so he swallows the words along with the nausea.
Lan Xinjie waits until it passes without touching him or speaking to him, which he is as grateful for as he can be grateful for anything at this point. The only thing she does is hand him the glass of water when he sits up again, the room swimming around him. The rim clicks against his teeth. He thinks of poison and drinks deep until he has to stop to breathe, and then again.

Be safe and well.

Comments

[elenothar]

I'm making a double 🥺🥺 expression at both the Shen Wei meta and the Rebel ficlet.

and also because Professor Shen and the modern Black-Cloaked Envoy being completely, self-overwhelmingly in love is different from the sweet, half-grown Hei Pao Shi of ten thousand years ago being the same.

I do sometimes wonder how much of a disconnect there is for Shen Wei between the two/three. As the viewers, we see him having changed pretty substantially from YOHE to now, but of course for him that does happen more naturally/gradually. Except, does it really? His life is very clearly demarcated into pre-burial and post-burial and it's really hard to imagine sweet, half-grown HPS holding on long in modern Haixing, post-Kunlun, post realising that Ye Zun is alive and hates him (and, in his mind, he failed to protect him).

[nnozomi]

Except, does it really? His life is very clearly demarcated into pre-burial and post-burial and it's really hard to imagine sweet, half-grown HPS holding on long in modern Haixing, post-Kunlun, post realising that Ye Zun is alive and hates him (and, in his mind, he failed to protect him).
Yes--I feel like we could have a whole pre-canon novel about Shen Wei-just-woken-up becoming, over--what is it, fifteen or twenty years?--who he is when we first see him. He must have been so, so lonely and confused and angry (and guilty) the first few years (although maybe the completely different setting of modern Haixing was actually kind of a relief, being so different from the old-Haixing where so much of his trauma happened).

[elenothar]

I would deeply want to read said pre-canon novel, but I don't think I'd trust myseld to do it justice.

He must have been so, so lonely and confused and angry (and guilty) the first few years

Way to come with the knives!

[nnozomi]

I discovered I have a lot of feelings about pre-canon Shen Wei, oh dear. There hasn't been much discussion (that I know of) about what it must have meant for him to become a whole new person in addition to the Black-Cloaked Envoy, and how mind-blowing he must have found it to become a college student, and then grad student and then professor, in Haixing. I was actually thinking of this in connection with The Rebel, because of the way some of "Xu Liwen's" mannerisms echo Shen Wei's when Lin Nansheng is pretending to be a shy, idealistic university tutor early on. Xu Liwen is just an alternate identity, but Shen Wei-the-professor is real; canon doesn't give us much information about it, but Cheng Xinyan has known him since they were students together, and his claim of undergraduate and Ph.D degrees to Zhao Yunlan could be easily checked, and he obviously knows his field. It blows my mind that Shen Wei, who had never been allowed to be anything but the Black-Cloaked Envoy, decided at some point after he woke up that he was going to become this whole other person, and he actually made it happen.
(Sorry, I didn't mean to go on at you at such length! I guess this has been on my mind.)

[elenothar]

Don't apologise! It was a delight to read and I'm always up for nattering on about Shen Wei XD

It blows my mind that Shen Wei, who had never been allowed to be anything but the Black-Cloaked Envoy, decided at some point after he woke up that he was going to become this whole other person, and he actually made it happen.

This so much! I do think Shen Wei throws himself into anything he does fully, but the learning curve must've been so steep. Not only was he learning all the stuff in his courses (and plenty others besides, probably, since he has to catch up history, culture, science advances etc.), he was also learning how to function in Haixing and how to pretend to be someone he's not until he literally becomes that someone, makes that identity real. Did he have role models at the university he looked to? Did he read a lot and try to emulate what he found in books? And how did he decide on biology specifically?

[nnozomi]

Did he have role models at the university he looked to? Did he read a lot and try to emulate what he found in books? And how did he decide on biology specifically?
Now I really want to know all this, oh dear. I wonder if the SID or its predecessor was involved in setting up the original identity for him, if he always planned to study biology (to understand more about being Dixingren?) or what, what it looked like inside him--was there a point when "Hei Pao Shi pretending to be biology-student-Shen-Wei" tipped over into "Hei Pao Shi who is also biology-student-Shen Wei" or what?
We just need more fic, that's all there is to it!

[elenothar]

We do need more fic! *glances guiltily at heap of WIPs* We should incite other people to write this fic 😂

Now I'm wondering if it maybe caught Shen Wei off guard too. He started as a student because he needed an identity in Haixing and he likes learning (and feels keenly that he needs to learn A Lot to cope in modern Haixing), but then he finds that he actually really enjoys it? And suddenly duty has a counterweight - never ignored, but there's something else to live for now, too.

[nnozomi]

And suddenly duty has a counterweight - never ignored, but there's something else to live for now, too.
♡♡♡

[tinny]

I'm just sitting here making heart-eyes at your Shen Wei meta. <3

[nnozomi]

(assuming "your" is plural here, since this thread is mostly Elenothar's good ideas!) <3 <3 Shen Wei.

[china_shop]

I mean, he is horrified to find that modern pre-Kunlun Kunlun is such a disaster all around, but also there’s this amazing unfolding joy at seeing all the aspects of Kunlun that, for various good reasons, he never could ten thousand years ago; even the terrible ones (possibly excepting the fridge) are in some ways wonderful revelations, both in the sense of just getting to know him better and in the sense that there’s so much more depth and complexity to Kunlun than his younger self could ever have imagined, including the bad parts, and for the first time he’s able to imagine the things that have made/are making Kunlun who he is, not just his own youthful adulation. The head-on-shoulder taxi scene is a real moment of his discovering what it’s like to be older than Kunlun, in both years and maturity, and recognizing again that yes, he still loves him that much. And it’s terrifying for him, both because he doesn’t know that (this) Kunlun does or will love him back—and he doesn’t know if he’ll get him back after the timeloop—and also because Professor Shen and the modern Black-Cloaked Envoy being completely, self-overwhelmingly in love is different from the sweet, half-grown Hei Pao Shi of ten thousand years ago being the same.

I'm sorry, I have to quote this whole thing (and roll around in a for an hour or two). *full-on heart-eyes*

(Also, I don't know if you saw this thread, but it led me down a little side-path to Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi...)

Feel better soon! *much hugs and soothing things*

[china_shop]

I'm still rolling around in about this, jsyk, thinking about what it must mean to suddenly be the older one in a relationship (I found being the taller-and-older one unexpectedly role-shifting when I was), especially in cultures that are so aware of relative ages. And also how seamlessly capable Kunlun managed to seem in the past, how young and fragile and in need of protection he must seem now, even though the outline of that capability is already obviously there.

There's a line in a Gin Wigmore song that goes, "Closest thing to magic, watching you become / My light, my dark, my everything" that always makes me think of them.

[nnozomi]

thank you for kind words ♡ and for the pointer to the very thought-provoking ZXC comment!
what it must mean to suddenly be the older one in a relationship, especially in cultures that are so aware of relative ages.
Yes, this! (Do you remember how old Zhao Yunlan is? Thirty? Thirty-four? I can't remember if Shen Wei at "thirty-two" would actually be older even without the ±10,000 years, but I suppose it doesn't matter.) Shen Wei's urge to protect him must be overwhelming (especially since, once he figures out about the time loop, he can lie to himself that he's just doing it to protect the continuity).
And also how seamlessly capable Kunlun managed to seem in the past, how young and fragile and in need of protection he must seem now, even though the outline of that capability is already obviously there
Or, from Zhao Yunlan's perspective in old-Haixing: how seamlessly capable Shen Wei managed to seem in the future, how young and fragile and in need of protection he must seem now, even though the outline of that capability is already obviously there...it's such a mirror.

[china_shop]

Ahh, I just linked to this post recently and saw I never answered this. Oops!

Do you remember how old Zhao Yunlan is? Thirty? Thirty-four? I can't remember if Shen Wei at "thirty-two" would actually be older even without the ±10,000 years, but I suppose it doesn't matter.

Afaicr the only canon info on this is his personnel file (only canon if you believe the prop dept) which has him at 28. I tend to prefer him a bit older than that, preferably 32 or so, but there's nice symmetry to ZYL being the younger one here, and Shen Wei being the younger one in YOHE, so... *shrugs* Zhao Yunlan is the younger one in contemporary times, regardless.

how young and fragile and in need of protection he must seem now, even though the outline of that capability is already obviously there...it's such a mirror.

Ye-es... I don't tend to think of the young Envoy as fragile or in need of protection, really? At least, not physically, the way ZYL is. To me, his weakness is more about being isolated, closed off and purely a soldier -- needing to learn to relax and find pleasure in things sometimes. :-)

[nnozomi]

Yeah, for me just about 30 sits right for Zhao Yunlan--still younger than Shen Wei, but old enough to have gotten the hang of adulthood, if you will.

I don't tend to think of the young Envoy as fragile or in need of protection, really? At least, not physically, the way ZYL is. To me, his weakness is more about being isolated, closed off and purely a soldier -- needing to learn to relax and find pleasure in things sometimes. :-)
Yes, we basically agree--little!Shen Wei doesn't seem to me physically fragile or in need of protection, but I do think of him as more visibly emotionally vulnerable compared to modern!Shen Wei's layers of physical and other masks, the way he opens up immediately to Kunlun.

[china_shop]

but I do think of him as more visibly emotionally vulnerable compared to modern!Shen Wei's layers of physical and other masks

Yes, and more lonely, too, I think? War isn't the comfort that science and teaching can be.

... but also, ahh, this makes me want an AU where it's Minister Gao who introduces Professor Shen to Zhao Yunlan and says they should work together (ie, Shen Wei's Envoy identity is known to the DoS but not the SID), much as Ma Gui and Fu You essentially did to the young Envoy re Kunlun. How much difference does the character reference make? Would Zhao Yunlan be less or more suspicious? Less or more intrigued?

Or what if it was Da Qing vouching for the Envoy? (Too many possibilities! Not enough time! *g*)

[nnozomi]

Yes, and more lonely, too, I think? War isn't the comfort that science and teaching can be.
Yes! *sniff* He only has one persona, he doesn't get to take shelter in being Professor Shen.

So many AUs, so little time!

[clevermanka]

for the first time he’s able to imagine the things that have made/are making Kunlun who he is, not just his own youthful adulation. The head-on-shoulder taxi scene is a real moment of his discovering what it’s like to be older than Kunlun, in both years and maturity, and recognizing again that yes, he still loves him that much.
*screaming my feels into the void*
*breath*
And it’s terrifying for him, both because he doesn’t know that (this) Kunlun does or will love him back—and he doesn’t know if he’ll get him back after the timeloop—and also because Professor Shen and the modern Black-Cloaked Envoy being completely, self-overwhelmingly in love is different from the sweet, half-grown Hei Pao Shi of ten thousand years ago being the same.
*SCREAM*

I have absolutely nothing to contribute here except EXCESSIVE FEELS

[nnozomi]

Excessive feels always very welcome *hugs hugs hugs*

[maggie33]

Ahhh, that snippet for The Rebel is excellent. And especially this:

Then the hands in the momentary dream are no longer Lan Xinjie’s small, cold, soft ones, but larger and stronger, blunt fingertips conferring kindness while leaving open the possibility of pain—

and this:

his exhausted mind has made another sudden leap and he can’t stop thinking did it hurt, how much did it hurt him, was he frightened, alone in that room.

Oh my heart, this is so good. :)

[nnozomi]

Thank you! <3 I swore I would not write fic for this show and it happened anyway. It's so tempting to look into everything going on behind Lin Nansheng's eyes that the show doesn't spell out...

[trobadora]

Tiny trivial discomforts can turn into big nontrivial ones if they stick around for too long. All the hugs!

but also there’s this amazing unfolding joy at seeing all the aspects of Kunlun that, for various good reasons, he never could ten thousand years ago

Oh, this is so good. This entire paragraph. I love it. YES, discovering all the layers of Zhao Yunlan! And oh, that's a take on the taxi scene I hadn't seen before, but that makes so much sense, that realisation. And YES he still loves him just as much if not more, despite and because of everything that's different now. SO SO much love. ♥ ♥ ♥

[nnozomi]

*all the hugs back*

oh, that's a take on the taxi scene I hadn't seen before, but that makes so much sense, that realisation. And YES he still loves him just as much if not more, despite and because of everything that's different now.
I mean, one of the lovely things about the taxi scene is that you can read it a half a dozen different ways, but it just fit into this idea for me. And Shen Wei has confirmed for himself in the interim, via his students, that taking care of people is his thing, so it makes sense to me that Zhao Yunlan needing taken care of would make Shen Wei love him more, not less...

[ratbones]

The head-on-shoulder taxi scene is a real moment of his discovering what it’s like to be older than Kunlun, in both years and maturity, and recognizing again that yes, he still loves him that much.
Oh! Yes. You nailed it. And as you say, he has so many excellent reasons to be scared (...including the fridge...) and now I'm thinking about his self-sabotaged half-attempts at keeping distance and having Emotions. OH SHEN WEI.

[nnozomi]

This idea came to me at least in part because of the meta you posted a little while ago, I should have credited you by name, I haven't been managing to comment elsewhere much but I really enjoyed reading!

now I'm thinking about his self-sabotaged half-attempts at keeping distance and having Emotions. OH SHEN WEI.
yes, that is such a perfect way to put it. Neither his fear or his common sense are enough to keep him at a distance from Zhao Yunlan, but he tries so hard not to melt into a puddle at Zhao Yunlan's feet...oh Shen Wei.

[ratbones]

Oh, don't worry about it, I'm just glad my meta inspired some ideas! I usually struggle to remember who said what thing that sparked a thought I eventually post about. ^^;

Shen Weiiiii. Staving off melting into a puddle by folding the guy's clothes for him might not be the most logical choice but, well, he's in love. <3

[nnozomi]

<3 I feel like there has been a lot of good meta going around lately, at your place and china_shop's and on the Guardian comm and so on, and it's a delight.

Staving off melting into a puddle by folding the guy's clothes for him might not be the most logical choice but, well, he's in love. <3
But at least he's doing it while Zhao Yunlan is asleep! If Zhao Yunlan didn't actually see him melting, it didn't happen, right? ;)

[salamandras]

Even minor discomforts add up and can be disquieting and upsetting. I hope you feel better!

there’s so much more depth and complexity to Kunlun than his younger self could ever have imagined, including the bad parts, and for the first time he’s able to imagine the things that have made/are making Kunlun who he is, not just his own youthful adulation.

I love reading your thoughts about Shen Wei's perspective in episode 8. Your description of how he has to integrate his memories of Kunlun with what learns about Zhao Yunlan as he is now give me all the feels. Zhu Yilong did such a fabulous job of portraying that.

[nnozomi]

<3 thank you for all kind words.

how he has to integrate his memories of Kunlun with what he learns about Zhao Yunlan as he is now.... Zhu Yilong did such a fabulous job of portraying that.
Yes, oh yes! Very little of it is spelled out in so many words, but the more you watch him the more you see so much happening inside.
Upon reflection, since Lin Nansheng in The Rebel is also played by Zhu Yilong, this post is basically just me losing my head over him yet again, in various flavors. oh dear

[yaaurens]

aaaaaahhhh *flails incoherently but happily at Shen Wei meta*

[nnozomi]

<3 <3 glad you enjoyed it!
(will email shortly about Tuesday Shakespeare thing, looking forward to it)

[sakana17]

I'm having similar reactions to elenothar! That's such a great observation about Shen Wei, especially in the taxi scene. Oh, they continue to hurt my heart in the very best ways.

And then the Rebel fic! Oh, gosh. I love it. It's perfect for Lin Nansheng.

[nnozomi]

Oh, they continue to hurt my heart in the very best ways.
Yes! Excellent way to put it.

and thanks for kind words re fic. I swore I would not write fic for this show, and then my brain just grabbed this one scene and said "yes, and what was he thinking" and, oh dear.

[marycrawford]

Ohh, I love your thoughts about Shen Wei and Kunlun! I've just been talking to Nirvana in Fire fans about how that show rewards rewatching, and I think that's generally well established, but Guardian has this same feelng to it - the way scenes shift and gain emotional depth once you know Shen Wei's history is really something.

he doesn’t know that (this) Kunlun does or will love him back—and he doesn’t know if he’ll get him back after the timeloop—and also because Professor Shen and the modern Black-Cloaked Envoy being completely, self-overwhelmingly in love is different from the sweet, half-grown Hei Pao Shi of ten thousand years ago being the same.

Thisssss. I just want to wail companionably at all this beautiful angst.

[nnozomi]

Guardian has this same feeling to it - the way scenes shift and gain emotional depth once you know Shen Wei's history is really something.
Yes! Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan are a host in themselves, really, there's so much happening inside them, and (bless Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu forever), the more you watch, the more you see.

I just want to wail companionably at all this beautiful angst.
and as Shen Wei's angst goes, this is on the more easily resolved side! I mean, Zhao Yunlan does love him back!

[china_shop]

and as Shen Wei's angst goes, this is on the more easily resolved side! I mean, Zhao Yunlan does love him back!

I was just innocently browsing your comments, and you punched me in the gut! Ow!

(♥ ♥ ♥)

[tinny]

*HUGS*

Good ramblings about Shen Wei.

Good fic. (although I've stopped watching the Rebel. No promises as to whether I'll pick it up again.)

[nnozomi]

*hugs back*

thank you <3

[achray]

I just saw this, it's amazing, please proceed to writing all the Rebel fic I will, uh, pay you in more fic?

I love the Shen Wei meta too, beautifully expressed <3

[nnozomi]

please proceed to writing all the Rebel fic I will, uh, pay you in more fic?
I'm trying hard to avoid writing more fic, but when this is what you come up with to tempt me? Oh dear :) I'll keep you posted. If I do end up writing more Rebel fic, it is likely to be still more Lin Nansheng hurt no comfort (which might as well be the subtitle of the actual show, honestly) or, because I'm a weirdo, something Wang Shi'an-centric... .

<3<3<3

[grayswandir]

I ended up here in a very roundabout way from your latest post, and just wanted to drop a comment to ♥ at the Rebel ficlet. Perfect Lin Nansheng. ♥♥♥ (You could perhaps post it on AO3!)

[nnozomi]

oh wow, thank you! <3 Lovely to get an unexpected comment on an older ficlet. I feel like there's still such a wealth of potential fic in The Rebel...