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nnozomiSpecifically Lin Nansheng, Chen Moqun, Wang Shi’an, and their respective actors.
My views may change in future as I’ve only watched up through episode 21—half an episode a day seems to be just about right for me, in terms of the intensity of the content and also how much Chinese my brain can cope with at once. With occasional breaks for the Japanese officers, of course (the dialogue seems authentic enough but they didn’t go all in on dialect coaching, and it’s strange to hear General (?) Takahashi speaking Japanese with a heavy Chinese accent). The Emperor’s Birthday (天长节 or 天皇誕生日 in Japanese, colloquially referred to by Japanese diplomats as 天誕 or “EmpBir” , cf Vorkosiverse, back when I was a secretary) was always the Japanese national day abroad, I see. Very weird to find our old enemy the 特高 or Special High Police appearing as well, after much time spent once upon a time with the prewar Japanese left wing. (The lack of reference to the active and passionate left-wing/Communist protest movement in 1930s Japan itself is an aspect of the show’s propaganda, of course—they would like Japan to be an enemy monolith—but also I suppose it isn’t really part of the story in narrative terms.)
The acting is so good I don’t know where to start. (If I’m not as tightly focused on Zhu Yilong as I’d expected to be, it’s only because everyone is just that good.) Wang Yang is stunning. I don’t even like Chen Moqun, but he’s mesmerizing, larger than life but never overacted. Most of his scenes are immensely fraught, and he does terrible things and is himself victimized in some ways—and then in episode 21 we see him cut loose dancing to jazz like there’s no tomorrow, which is both very sexy and, because the release of his tension shows just how much he is normally wound up in, deeply sad.
And Zhang Zixian as Wang Shi’an pulls off the very difficult task of making this awful person real and believable and human, while still awful on a less dramatic scale than Chen Moqun’s huge personality. He’s so, so well done, and I still have a...not liking exactly...but I keep thinking about what would have to happen for Wang Shi’an to be redeemed. I mean, he is by no means completely incompetent, he’s a clever operator, smart enough to outplay Chen Moqun and Lin Nansheng together, even with Lao Gu helpfully manipulating him from the sidelines; if Chen Moqun had treated him from the start like a treasured subordinate, the way he treated Lin Nansheng...? No one wants Wang Shi’an’s loyalty, or acts like he has anything valuable to give them (the scene when he’s appointed acting station chief and everyone doesn’t quite clap in time, humiliating instead of congratulating him. And he doesn’t even look surprised that that’s how it goes). Look how he goes “ooh” when Zhou Yaoting tells him he’s wasted on his rank. (cf Jin Guangyao and Su She?) Was he a creep born with a grudge in the first place, or did he start finding ways to get back at the world for treating him like the one who doesn’t matter?
Here’s another thing that sucks about propaganda: look at all the amazing things Zhu Yilong does with Lin Nansheng, and imagine just how much more he could have done if there wasn’t ultimately a right answer prepared for him. I mean, the role was (literally, I believe) tailor-made for Zhu Yilong’s strengths as an actor, but—if neither we the audience nor Lin Nansheng the character were being told what to believe—Lin Nansheng would still be working his way to his own moral conclusions, but without the fucking invisible hand of Mao on the back of his neck, and it would give both the character and the actor a chance for still more subtle, more interesting development. Imagine a story with no one any more obviously in the right than the historical facts suggest, centered on the struggle between Chen Moqun and Zhu Yizhen for the soul of Lin Nansheng, who in the end has to make up his own mind... .
(But even so, look at all the amazing things he does. Clear as glass, with that particular stoic grace—so much of his acting is physical (above and beyond his beauty, oh dear). Episode 12, out in the woods, when Chen Moqun tells him to shoot Zhu Yizhen—there’s nothing you could point to that changes in his face or bearing, but all of a sudden it’s clear that he will not do it and there’s no way Chen Moqun can force him into it (and CMQ realizes it too and immediately changes tactics). And more from episode 19: at the café when he realizes the Communist agent he’s meeting is Zhu Yizhen, he keeps on reciting the official lines he’s been given, but his voice is suddenly a rasp as if he’s had the wind knocked out of him. And right at the end in Wang Shi’an’s office, the camera is on Lin Nansheng for a split second only, he doesn’t move or speak but it’s clear that he is a hair’s breadth away from an explosion. If not for Lao Gu doing the UXB work...)
finally the thing that hit me hardest so far, holy shit, the second half of episode 20, that incredible intensity. Honestly I don’t think there was anything there that wouldn’t have been played just the same way if Chen Moqun and Lin Nansheng had been lovers...? “I told them to have you come alone.” “I’ve never doubted you.” Oh my God. Up until this point I could see why some people have dwelt on CMQ/LNS, but I didn’t think of it as more than a suggestive dynamic; after this episode...okay, I give. Lin Nansheng and Zhu Yizhen, a sweet, doomed youthful romance (“for the sake of what lay between us when we were innocent,” from a very different canon). Lin Nansheng and Chen Moqun, painful fucked-up vibrating intensity and tragedy.
I’m sorry that got so long, I seem to have had 21 episodes worth of thoughts piling up, funny how that happens. And I haven’t even thought about Lan Xinjie or the Communist mastermind uncles or... Anyway, come talk to me about all this if interested.
My views may change in future as I’ve only watched up through episode 21—half an episode a day seems to be just about right for me, in terms of the intensity of the content and also how much Chinese my brain can cope with at once. With occasional breaks for the Japanese officers, of course (the dialogue seems authentic enough but they didn’t go all in on dialect coaching, and it’s strange to hear General (?) Takahashi speaking Japanese with a heavy Chinese accent). The Emperor’s Birthday (天长节 or 天皇誕生日 in Japanese, colloquially referred to by Japanese diplomats as 天誕 or “EmpBir” , cf Vorkosiverse, back when I was a secretary) was always the Japanese national day abroad, I see. Very weird to find our old enemy the 特高 or Special High Police appearing as well, after much time spent once upon a time with the prewar Japanese left wing. (The lack of reference to the active and passionate left-wing/Communist protest movement in 1930s Japan itself is an aspect of the show’s propaganda, of course—they would like Japan to be an enemy monolith—but also I suppose it isn’t really part of the story in narrative terms.)
The acting is so good I don’t know where to start. (If I’m not as tightly focused on Zhu Yilong as I’d expected to be, it’s only because everyone is just that good.) Wang Yang is stunning. I don’t even like Chen Moqun, but he’s mesmerizing, larger than life but never overacted. Most of his scenes are immensely fraught, and he does terrible things and is himself victimized in some ways—and then in episode 21 we see him cut loose dancing to jazz like there’s no tomorrow, which is both very sexy and, because the release of his tension shows just how much he is normally wound up in, deeply sad.
And Zhang Zixian as Wang Shi’an pulls off the very difficult task of making this awful person real and believable and human, while still awful on a less dramatic scale than Chen Moqun’s huge personality. He’s so, so well done, and I still have a...not liking exactly...but I keep thinking about what would have to happen for Wang Shi’an to be redeemed. I mean, he is by no means completely incompetent, he’s a clever operator, smart enough to outplay Chen Moqun and Lin Nansheng together, even with Lao Gu helpfully manipulating him from the sidelines; if Chen Moqun had treated him from the start like a treasured subordinate, the way he treated Lin Nansheng...? No one wants Wang Shi’an’s loyalty, or acts like he has anything valuable to give them (the scene when he’s appointed acting station chief and everyone doesn’t quite clap in time, humiliating instead of congratulating him. And he doesn’t even look surprised that that’s how it goes). Look how he goes “ooh” when Zhou Yaoting tells him he’s wasted on his rank. (cf Jin Guangyao and Su She?) Was he a creep born with a grudge in the first place, or did he start finding ways to get back at the world for treating him like the one who doesn’t matter?
Here’s another thing that sucks about propaganda: look at all the amazing things Zhu Yilong does with Lin Nansheng, and imagine just how much more he could have done if there wasn’t ultimately a right answer prepared for him. I mean, the role was (literally, I believe) tailor-made for Zhu Yilong’s strengths as an actor, but—if neither we the audience nor Lin Nansheng the character were being told what to believe—Lin Nansheng would still be working his way to his own moral conclusions, but without the fucking invisible hand of Mao on the back of his neck, and it would give both the character and the actor a chance for still more subtle, more interesting development. Imagine a story with no one any more obviously in the right than the historical facts suggest, centered on the struggle between Chen Moqun and Zhu Yizhen for the soul of Lin Nansheng, who in the end has to make up his own mind... .
(But even so, look at all the amazing things he does. Clear as glass, with that particular stoic grace—so much of his acting is physical (above and beyond his beauty, oh dear). Episode 12, out in the woods, when Chen Moqun tells him to shoot Zhu Yizhen—there’s nothing you could point to that changes in his face or bearing, but all of a sudden it’s clear that he will not do it and there’s no way Chen Moqun can force him into it (and CMQ realizes it too and immediately changes tactics). And more from episode 19: at the café when he realizes the Communist agent he’s meeting is Zhu Yizhen, he keeps on reciting the official lines he’s been given, but his voice is suddenly a rasp as if he’s had the wind knocked out of him. And right at the end in Wang Shi’an’s office, the camera is on Lin Nansheng for a split second only, he doesn’t move or speak but it’s clear that he is a hair’s breadth away from an explosion. If not for Lao Gu doing the UXB work...)
finally the thing that hit me hardest so far, holy shit, the second half of episode 20, that incredible intensity. Honestly I don’t think there was anything there that wouldn’t have been played just the same way if Chen Moqun and Lin Nansheng had been lovers...? “I told them to have you come alone.” “I’ve never doubted you.” Oh my God. Up until this point I could see why some people have dwelt on CMQ/LNS, but I didn’t think of it as more than a suggestive dynamic; after this episode...okay, I give. Lin Nansheng and Zhu Yizhen, a sweet, doomed youthful romance (“for the sake of what lay between us when we were innocent,” from a very different canon). Lin Nansheng and Chen Moqun, painful fucked-up vibrating intensity and tragedy.
I’m sorry that got so long, I seem to have had 21 episodes worth of thoughts piling up, funny how that happens. And I haven’t even thought about Lan Xinjie or the Communist mastermind uncles or... Anyway, come talk to me about all this if interested.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 12:02 pm (UTC)And I agree with everything you wrote about Wang Shi’an. The character is awful, but in that depressing, realistic way, and the actor is wonderful, as you've said, at making him believable and human and still awful.
And that scene in episodes 20 between Lin Nansheng and Chen Moqun is fantastic. I remember watching it and then instantly rewinding and watching it again, because it was so good and and intense and it gave me so many feelings.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 05:58 am (UTC)I know---, it's so good and so frustrating.
I remember watching it and then instantly rewinding and watching it again, because it was so good and intense and it gave me so many feelings.
ha, it gave me just the same feelings but my reaction was the opposite, "okay, I need to back away and take a deep breath, oh dear...". It's just, like, a five-minute scene and it packs such a punch.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 12:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 05:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 01:31 pm (UTC)I don't have any coherent character thoughts yet - I think that's going to have to wait until I'm a bit further in, but thank you for typing up your thoughts.
(Also, Vorkosigan high five! So people know that series where I'm from, so I'm always pleased to find someone else who likes it.)
no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 06:01 am (UTC)Yes! That's a great point and a big reason why it's so incredibly well done.
it really is such a shame it had to be made that way. I would very much like to unreservedly enjoy this show.
As you say, oh dear.
Will look forward to your thoughts as you keep watching. Also, there seems to be quite an overlap between Vorkosigan fans and Guardian fans! Not sure why, but why not.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 01:34 pm (UTC)I was thinking the exact same thing as I read your paragraph, there.
so much of his acting is physical
Yes yes yes I love watching that. God, he's a brilliant actor. Nngngngngn I can't wait until I have the emotional resources to watch this show!
no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 06:07 am (UTC)He is so good and it's a joy to watch him work with a cast this good as well. I think you'll get a lot out of it when you do feel ready to watch it, in your own time.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 04:59 pm (UTC)It is a bit sad how this could have been much better if it wasn't propaganda. It's already very good, but of course it can never be great because of that.
I am a bit hesitant to keep watching, because I don't want lns and zyz to lose their innocence. I know it has to happen, but oof.
I also think that Wang Yang is brilliant as cmq, even though I don't particularly see the pairing, either. (But maybe it'll change, as it did for you. We'll see. :D) I'm not opposed to the pairing, either. There is an interesting dynamic there.
teyla found out he's in Infernal Affairs (a Hong Kong drama, remake of the movies), and apparently very cute in it.
no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 06:14 am (UTC)I know what you mean. For the record, I found post-timeskip (post-first-timeskip? no idea) Zhu Yizhen very attractive as a "grownup" rather than a schoolgirl, I like what the show does with her so far. (I was thinking that for good or ill there's a hint of innocence...天真...? in almost every role Zhu Yilong plays, as a baseline of sorts, whether it's on purpose or not. Not quite the same thing you mean, I guess...)
I also think that Wang Yang is brilliant as cmq, even though I don't particularly see the pairing, either.
A rare occurrence for me, feeling that I'm not invested in this pairing per se but it's very strongly there on the screen in the subtext.
no subject
Date: 2021-09-13 04:18 pm (UTC)Yeah, no it's not what I meant. But I agree with you. Which is why I can't take dreamlike completely seriously for example, because the tough mafia enforcer just... does not compute. z1l has this innocence that he just can't hide (and that i love).
no subject
Date: 2021-08-01 08:39 pm (UTC)I'm rough on Wang Shi'an, but that's a testament to the excellent performance of Zhang Zixian. I vent my hate on Wang Shi'an because he's realistic and believable, and he's not incompetent or entirely misguided. I think he shares the same ultimate goals as his peers, but years of being denied opportunities have made him latch on to his ambitions ever more tightly. But though I vent my hate on him, I don't want to hate him because, like you say, imagine how things could've been different. If CMQ hadn't constantly excluded and belittled him. If Gu Shenyan wasn't manipulating him. If Wang Shi'an had had the right connections all along.
the scene when he’s appointed acting station chief and everyone doesn’t quite clap in time, humiliating instead of congratulating him
For what it's worth, when I watched this scene again recently, I felt that the worst humiliation in it isn't that no one's applauding, but was the announcement itself: he hasn't been made permanent station chief, but acting station chief. Which is what he was already doing after CMQ was sent to Nanjing. It's not a promotion, it's a slap in the face, particularly after CMQ left under such a cloud. It's a raw deal, and yet another mistreatment that plays to Wang Shi'an's worst impulses. Plus it leaves open the possibility for CMQ to return as station chief or for Nanjing to install someone else as station chief, and both options are highly insulting.
Zhu Yilong's performance... I barely have words, I'm just riveted all the time watching him. It's physical in ways that are difficult to describe or capture even in a screencap. Lin Nansheng is not like his other characters despite sharing a lot of the same traits: repression, responsibility, tight emotions.
if neither we the audience nor Lin Nansheng the character were being told what to believe—Lin Nansheng would still be working his way to his own moral conclusions
Yeah, there's no denying that the story would be so much better if the pro-CCP conclusion weren't inevitable. But it's interesting (and unexpected, at least for me) that Lin Nansheng doesn't quickly change sides. He makes some choices for Zhu Yizhen's sake (destroying evidence, not shooting her), but he doesn't, at that point, abandon the Nationalists or the government he swore his loyalty to. So I felt the series portrayed as long a path to LNS's decision as it could given its mainland China/CCTV origin. The most jarring (for me) propaganda happens in later episodes, and I sincerely wish those scenes weren't there at all.
Lin Nansheng and Chen Moqun, painful fucked-up vibrating intensity and tragedy.
Oh yes! I did not ship them when I watched it at first. I actively resisting shipping them because it can only be fucked-up and tragic. On rewatch, I fell hard. /o\ They are so intense together, and I'm weak for that.
(Eeek, I'm so sorry this got long! I have a lot of reactions to The Rebel.)
no subject
Date: 2021-08-02 06:28 am (UTC)I don't want to hate him because, like you say, imagine how things could've been different. If CMQ hadn't constantly excluded and belittled him. If Gu Shenyan wasn't manipulating him. If Wang Shi'an had had the right connections all along.
Yes--you make great points about Wang Shi'an here and elsewhere. I may end up hating him too once I've seen the whole thing, but at the moment he's the kind of character who fascinates me, and Zhang Zixian is so good.
So I felt the series portrayed as long a path to LNS's decision as it could
Yes, true! As of the halfway point I feel like a lot of my impressions of its propaganda aspects come from knowing about the whole thing in general; the actual content so far has been (comparatively, sigh) open and thoughtful. It interested me, for instance, that the whole sequence of Chen Moqun's being driven into the arms of the Japanese seems designed to make us empathize with him--it's not just "Nationalists bad, Communists good." Oh dear, I really do not know enough about the context, either historical or modern-day, to be talking about any of this.
Wang Yang as Chen Moqun is so magnetic, and that scene where he's dancing that you point out - yes. To see CMQ let go like that is both sexy and sad.
I was thinking that this scene is even stronger because all that frenetic unhappy energy is juxtaposed so closely with the jarring contrast of Lin Nansheng in his cell, that colorless motionless scene where Lin Nansheng looks ill and exhausted (Zhu Yilong please eat something).
They are so intense together, and I'm weak for that.
It's not my kind of ship at all and I did not expect to be hit over the head with the subtext, but that scene.
I'm just riveted all the time watching him. It's physical in ways that are difficult to describe or capture even in a screencap
Absolutely. <3